by Hannah Packard

As I make my way to the meeting room for this interview, I pass by John’s cubicle and his assistant Dianne’s office. John smiles and gathers his things while Dianne asks if we have everything we need.

No leader is perfect, but I have always perceived John as someone seeking to be Spirit-led. His decision to work at a cubicle while Dianne has an office for her time here five days a week has been one small reflection to me of those priorities of Spirit-led, servant leadership.

John and I chat briefly before we open in prayer, and I start the audio recording. As he answers my first question, I notice him keeping his eyes closed as he speaks—something he does through much of our interview. Here and there, I join him by closing my eyes to listen to his answers. It makes the rest of our time feel like a continuation of that earlier moment of prayer.

So, I’d like to start with—what has God taught you personally during your time as denominational president?

Being placed into this role made it very obvious that my leadership will be no better than my day-to-day listening to and obedience to the Holy Spirit.

At the time when I was first elected in 2013, I was barely physically strong enough to consider the role, having just had that health crisis and the healing that took place. God had miraculously touched my body, but it wasn’t like suddenly I was running ultra-marathons again. There was a lot of recovery still needed.

On the day of the election at Council 2013, I joined a time of prayer and fasting. I got alone by myself over in a corner and, with my face on the carpet, prayed, Lord, if you are calling me to this role, wouldn’t you give me one more healing to give me to this role, wouldn’t you give me one more healing to give me the strength that I need to do this? And what I sensed in my spirit was His response, No, I’m not going to give you another touch of healing. Instead, I’m going to give you everything you need for every day.

A thousand times since then, I’ve laid my head on the pillow at night after not knowing how I was going to handle some things throughout the day, and said, Well, Lord, You did it again. You gave me everything that I needed today.

What is something that you know about God now—or a new facet of His character—that you didn’t know 12 years ago?

Well, I think my view of God has been enlarged because of so much interaction with other cultures and Christian communities within the Alliance family in the United States and across the globe. The Alliance is a fascinating multinational, multicultural family. How others express worship, prayer, and faith relationships has amplified my understanding of God from my previously fairly narrow cultural background. Before the throne in heaven, we will get to celebrate with every tribe, tongue, nation, and people. Every culture brings its own expression and reflection of who God is. I’ve been enriched by these experiences and relationships.

How has your understanding of leadership and service been expanded?

The essential nature of working through teams has been a joyful part of this journey. God’s given us such a dedicated leadership team that it’s brought great joy to work with them, and God has accomplished so much more through them than had I just been flying solo.

The second thing would be, as a change agent kind of leader, I continue to be stretched in my understanding of how change impacts people and the significance of monitoring the pace of change. Some Alliance readers might laugh right now because they may feel like, “Wow, Stumbo did way too much in too short of time.” And my only appeal to that is I didn’t see a global pandemic coming, and that complicated the timeline of so many things.

A lot of people don’t love change, but unless we’re calling people to change (taking people somewhere they may not get on their own), we’re truly not leading. The trick, the skill, the task of leadership is helping people you love do what they hate. I obviously would’ve done some things differently, as any of us would who look back on our ministries, but I’ve grown in my understanding of organizational change and the leadership required to bring it about.

You’ve talked before about your dual role of CEO and pastor as president of our denomination. It seems like that makes the change even more complicated, because you’re not only doing organizational leadership and change management, but also pastoral work.

Yes—the first line of the job description of the president of The Alliance is, “The president is the spiritual leader and chief executive officer of The Christian and Missionary Alliance.” I love that our forefathers put that order in place, and I’ve sought to live that out—spiritual leadership before executive leadership, caring about people for who they are before I try to adjust the organization for greater mission fulfillment. “Love before task” has been the desire. I haven’t done it perfectly, but that’s certainly been the desire.

So, what are some of the spiritual practices that you’ve found helpful and sustaining as you do such a weighty job?

I have a long-standing practice, most years, of reading the Bible through in a year, which I’ve found keeps my heart and mind engaged in the Scripture and reflecting on passages that, if I were just flipping the pages, I might not go to. My son Josiah also introduced me to a Bible memory app some years ago that relaunched my commitment to memorize the Word. It’s been my lifetime goal to memorize 10 percent of the Bible, with every book of the Bible and every chapter of the New Testament represented. I’m two-thirds of the way there now.

The rhythm of Sabbath has also been important. In a very weary time of life in my thirties, I had not ever practiced a weekly rhythm of hearing God’s permission to not accomplish anything one day in seven. I believe that’s the core of Sabbath—hearing God say, Stop, quit, cease, desist. I was sitting in meetings all day, sitting typing emails, sitting preparing sermons. So I thought, What if I cease one day a week and get out and do something active that revitalizes my soul?

So, Bible reading, memorization, and Sabbath. Prayer tends to flow out of each of those. To the surprise of some, I’m really not that verbal of a guy. I’m helped by prompts. Those all become prompts that lead me to prayer.

Are there specific pieces of advice, whether practical or spiritual, you would give to anyone stepping into leadership today, regardless of their age?

One, I would encourage them not to place all of their call upon their experience in ministry. When we begin, some of us don’t know enough about ourselves, our giftings, and how the Church or any ministry functions to know if the position is going to be a good fit. It’s fairly common that the first round is a little rough, and we certainly lost some leaders because they conclude, “I guess I’m not called into ministry.” I was there in my twenties, but in God’s kindness, He helped me realize that I really could not thrive in ministry but it did require a different assignment.

I started ministry in the 1980s, and it’s always been complex. Carnality, sin, worldliness, and the devil have been around since the Fall. But the pace of ministry today has increased the complexity of the issues and conversations people expect you to be an authority on. The 12 words I wish I would’ve learned 20 years earlier than I did are, “I may not be the best person to help you with that.” I felt I should always know or help or do something. But actually, my job is to love—the love of Christ through me. And maybe the most loving thing in that moment is to say, “Let me help you find somebody who will be more suited for this.”

As you look at the Church, especially the church in the United States today, what is one thing you feel like God might be saying to her?

We have to be willing to reposition ourselves in a way that reengages the communities around us. The typical church is isolated from the world rather than engaged with it. That’s not as effective today as it once was when people were more willing to come to our buildings. It’s time to take the bushel off the candle so our light shines before men, so they may see our good deeds and glorify our Father in heaven. Individuals do this in their day-to-day lives—but as an organized church, when does the public see that?

I might sound like a curmudgeon now, but I also like there’s less of a spirit of sacrifice in the church today. I’m not referring to a dour, we-never-enjoy-anything kind of lifestyle. But in Revelation 2, Jesus said it doesn’t matter how persevering and faithful you’ve been in some areas; if you’ve abandoned your first love, then I have an issue with you. I don’t view this as “first” relating to time, but first in priority, foremost. Make love your foremost, highest, utmost. Return to your priority love. And that’s where the sacrifice comes from. The love of Jesus compels me to it.

Zooming in a bit, what do you feel like God might be saying to The Alliance in this moment?

Well, one thing is, He’s got us. I’m so proud of The Christian and Missionary Alliance at this moment in time, as I often have been. Right now, we’re in a presidential search and nominating process, and every person involved has just been humbly trying to discern the will of God. No political jockeying, no trying to slam somebody else down to lift themselves up. Because of that, I have the highest level of confidence that we’re going to be in a good place come August 1 when the handoff transpires.

Speaking of August 1, what are your plans for this next chapter?

I’ve never taken a typical sabbatical. But starting August 1, I’m taking four months to let the silt in my soul settle and to separate my identity from any role. I’m hoping to stay home a lot; my backyard fire pit is inviting me. I would like to fish in Minnesota, spend a lot of time with my wife, kids, and grandkids, and have a family vacation to celebrate these past 12 years. But for the most part, I’ll be taking four months to be still—a season when I don’t have any assignment. I don’t know who John Stumbo is as an adult without a title. I was 20 when I was hired by my home church to be their youth and worship pastor. Joanna was 18 when I pulled her into that mix. We both need to just find out who we are in Christ regardless of position or title. I’ve set up an email address, [email protected], for anyone who has an inquiry they’d like to make or a vision they have for my life. But I won’t be opening it until the sabbatical is over. At the same time, I also need some months to grieve. I will miss this very much.

John pauses for the tears that have welled up. “I knew you’d get a tear out of me,” he jokes. The interview continues as I ask him a few more questions, mostly things I knew wouldn’t be included here. We talk about being tired, and personality types, and the complexity of the beautiful tapestry that is the Body of Christ. Our conversation is over before the hour is, and we end with one more prayer.

He goes back to sit at his desk and says, “Thank you,” as I go back to mine. “Thank you, John,” I respond.

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